American Exceptionalism and American Innocence - A People’s History of Fake News - From The Revolutionary War to The War on Terror - Roberto Sirvent & Danny Haiphong Audiobook
Language: EnglishKeywords:
Imperialism Colonialism Racism State-terrorism Genocide
Shared by:daenigma100
Did the U.S. really “save the world” in World War II? Should black athletes stop protesting and show more gratitude for what America has done for them? Are wars fought to spread freedom and democracy? Or is this all fake news?
American Exceptionalism and American Innocence examines the stories we’re told that lead us to think that the U.S. is a force for good in the world, regardless of slavery, the genocide of indigenous people, and the more than a century’s worth of imperialist war that the U.S. has wrought on the planet.
Roberto Sirvent and Danny Haiphong detail just what Captain America’s shield tells us about the pretensions of U.S. foreign policy, how Angelina Jolie and Bill Gates engage in humanitarian imperialism, and why the Broadway musical Hamilton is a monument to white supremacy.
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| Roberto Sirvent & Danny Haiphong - American Exceptionalism and American Innocence.mp3 303.41 MBs | |
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This post has 29 comments with rating of 5/5
April 14th, 2019
Thanks!
Looks like a excelente read.
April 14th, 2019
There is undoubtedly an American Exceptionalism - to the extent that they’re perpetually held responsible for the sins of their forebears. The degree to which this is ludicrously disproportionate is rendered clear when one reflects that every empire and hegemonic power in history has engaged in repulsive slavery and mass-killing. Some continue to indulge in it to this day. Open-air slave markets and private prisons have returned to Libya, several centuries after they were outlawed by the West. Chemical weapons are just another instrument of policy outside of the West now.
In all of human history, the West is the only civilisation to abolish slavery.
America is the only Enlightenment experiment to have worked (in Europe it resulted in the guillotine). Are they hated in some quarters because they succeeded?
I mean for God’s sake, even when they operate global charities they’re involved in “humanitarian imperialism?” To believe something like that you’d have to have a head emptier than a hermit’s address book. On a personal level, I’ve never found Americans to be fiendishly demonic, they tend to be as generous, decent, flawed and complex as everyone else.
Fake news, indeed.
April 14th, 2019
@caeser963 Your reaction proves a point You’ve omitted all the many many negative things America has done to developing nations and other countries it meddles with, the mass shootings that no other country in the West has, the religious extremists who want to ban abortion, the racism that causes so many murders by the police, etc. You talk about forebears but ignore 2019. It’ a screwed up country because it never faces up to it’s flaws so never holds itself to account.
April 14th, 2019
They are self-critical, loonyboy, America isn’t a monolith. They may speak freely. I did include criticism, however, your own argument would be stronger if you could bring yourself not to omit at least a fraction of all the good that they have done. Take the peace process in Northern Ireland, a region which the British had turned into a political slum (and look like doing so again); or Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, West Berlin, West Germany and saving Western Europe from the Soviet killing machine (Stalin resented not being able to reach Paris).
What about all the cultural, scientific and medical advances?
During the Cold War, it had, ranged against it, massive Communist slave states, which oddly escaped criticism from the same useful eejits who lambasted America (then and now).
People expect them to be the world’s policeman, in crises like WWI, WW2 (the “Arsenal of Democracy”), the former Yugoslavia - and still want to reserve the prerogative to hate them for it.
But you didn’t address why you thought America was uniquely evil; isn’t every other country deeply flawed? And “religious extremists,” as well as many others, object on moral and humane grounds to the killing of well in excess of 60 million babies since 1973. This was introduced, judicially - not democratically ratified, as a restricted measure, to be available in emergencies. Since then, it has become a frenzied, hyper-consumerist, eugenics extravaganza.
April 14th, 2019
America is exceptional. No nation or people is pure and purely innocent, but America for all the sins done by some of her citizens has far less to atone for than most and is still better than most as a place to live - just ask all the people who are hustling to get in by any means necessary …
April 15th, 2019
List of Atrocities committed by US authorities
Definition: An extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury.
“If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings.” - Nelson Mandela
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md
April 15th, 2019
I liked Mandela, but that quote itself is an unspeakable atrocity. For instance, the concentration/death camp is probably the limit case of absolute moral evil. It was created by the Spanish; then subsequently used by the British, Russians, Germans, Cubans, etc. etc.
It all depends on where you want to point the flashlight, and people can be very lazy in that regard.
April 15th, 2019
I think the authors must want to point us toward heaven, rather than a Marxist utopia (sarcasm). Alas, there is no utopia, and there is no perfect government, or persons. Motives are a tricky thing. A man may have a hundered potential motives for helping an elderly lady across the street. What are the motives of Roberto Sirvent and Danny Haiphong?
On the one hand they decry “American Exceptionalism,” and “humanitarian imperialism,” while on the other, complain about slavery. How do they think the abolition of worldwide slavery took place? The Christian right-wing moral reformer of Britain, William Wilberforce, is the one who spearheaded abolitionism, spreading to America and throughout the rest of the world.
Okay, so America and Britain may have overstepped their bounds in WWI by making certain treaties, which may have been informed by questionable motives. Nevertheless, German agents were actually conducting operations within the US, prior to any official declaration of war. The operations involved murder, attempted murder, espionage and destruction of property.
Do Sirvent and Haiphong really think that America should have rolled over, played dead and let the Nazis, Japanese and Communists murder everyone else in the world? Are they really so naive as to think that Hitler only wanted the land lost from the Treaty of Versailles, without any intention of world domination? How absurd! Heavy water was the only thing missing for Hitler to complete the Atomic bomb. Was it America being the force of evil that prevented him from accomplishing his goals?
One more thing, I would bet that America is the only country in the world that would allow such pathetic illogical drivel to be published against her.
April 15th, 2019
I really love the reaction to the slightest criticism of American imperialism: “But think of all the horrors we didn’t do…”
And the “White guys abolished slavery thing is pretty ridiculous, too. “Who killed Hitler? That’s right, Hitler! Guess he wasn’t such a bad guy, huh?”
April 15th, 2019
America is the greatest country in the history of the world. Everyone thinks so. They all want to come here. they might not say it with their mouth but they say it with their feet. Heck, even the writers of this book probably think that America is great as they probably live in America and would NEVER think of giving up their citizenship. ‘MURICA!
April 15th, 2019
As bad as it may seem. Live outside the US for awhile. All countries have problems.
April 15th, 2019
notmebug191, I don’t know who you were “reacting” to yourself, but what I think is “ridiculous” is for someone to interject a one-liner as a counterargument, without so much as a single reference. Skin color has nothing to do with slavery. Africans were enslaving Africans, Europeans were enslaving Europeans, and Asians were enslaving Asians, long before European colonies emerged in America. Slavery has been around every continent since the beginning of mankind, and continues today. The systematic eradication of slavery across the world was fostered by the sense of human dignity. William Wilberforce, spent his adult life fighting against slavery, and became influential on the world stage, you can read up on him in Amazing Grace: William Wilberforce and the Heroic Campaign to End Slavery by Eric Metxes. Thomas Sowell delves into the subject of the width and breadth of slavery in his book, Black Rednecks and White Liberals, and how abolitionism is rooted in the West.
My point was, and is merely that, with all of its problems, it was the Western powers that fostered and imposed abolitionism upon the rest of the world. Sirvent and Haiphong are condemning America and powerful Americans for imposing their sense of human dignity, while at the same time wanting to condemn America for being too slow in developing this sense of human dignity their self. That is called chronological snobbery. I also call it a self-contradiction. It could be that they are proposing that America should be condemned for its early slave policies, and also condemned for pushing other countries to follow in their moral awakening, and that it should maintain a tight international policy that would restrict itself from fostering human rights on other countries, and instead offer unconditional business with countries that don’t care about human dignity. In other words, don’t restrict North Korea from world trade for human rights abuses, because that would be considered imperialism.
I’m sorry, notmebug191, but where did you come up with the idea that Sirvent and Haiphong were only slightly complaining about a small degree of America’s international diplomacy?
April 15th, 2019
@notmebug191 - So, Hitler blew his head off because he was defeating the Allies? I’m scratching my historical head.
You should really publish that, no one has ever taken that angle before!
April 15th, 2019
“Skin color has nothing to do with slavery.”
You already exceeded the stupidity/bad faith allowance for your post and you’re only two sentences in.
April 15th, 2019
Well, he hasn’t actually (but someone else may have). Slavery/indentured servitude existed for white people in America also, from the early years. They would do servile work for their “masters” and then achieve their freedom. Black slaves could also be freed by their “owners.” In addition to this, Irish people who fought against the British were also sold into slavery by them. These particular slave plantations existed in their American colonies. You can’t get more milky white than Irish folks!
As Jiminy correctly outlined, slavery has been an equal opportunities barbarity, throughout human history, with all colours and ethnicities impacted. The Greeks and Romans had white slaves as well of course; the institution was a natural part of human life. People who went bankrupt routinely became slaves. Aristotle thought that some people were “slaves by nature” - whether they were Greek or “barbarian.” Plato lauded Sparta as an exemplar for Athens - Sparta was a slave state.
Our period of history, and the Western part of the world, is anomalous for reviling and abolishing slavery. Christianity planted the seeds for its destruction, but economics was the secular barrier to its abolition. For far too long.
Unfortunately, history puts everyone in the dock; but it’s prejudice that keeps them there.
April 16th, 2019
Good word, Caesar963. It’s also interesting that the first slave holder in America was a black man, Anthony Johnson. Prior to Johnson, indentured servitude, as you mentioned, was the only form of slavery known to exist in America.
I have a few questions for you, notmebug191. Who do you think sold Africans to the traders? Why did the traders stop shipping slaves? What was it that caused America’s conscience to become so deeply bothered by slavery, that they were willing to pay for their freedom with their own blood?
April 16th, 2019
caesar963 - America funded the IRA for decades. This isn’t one of those urban myths, it’s just a fact. That’s why American leaders felt they owed Ireland something by helping broker peace.
This is the stuff that the audiobook is about. Telling the truth. Obviously all countries do terrible things but other countries don’t pretend they never happened.
April 16th, 2019
loonyboyx - Good points; however, it’s very expedient for the other countries, with even more appalling histories, to concentrate on the sins of anyone but themselves; in this case: America.
This, while the Americans engage in real self-analysis. You have narrow jingoism everywhere; can we mention England as a blatant example?
It wasn’t American public policy to fund IRA killers, that was the covert intent of an organisation called “NORAID” - whose funding structure and viability was gradually dismantled by the Irish and American governments working in tandem (with Ted Kennedy operating to undermine the organisation from the Senate).
The vast majority of Irish-Americans wanted to bring about a fair peace, and strove effectively within the political structures to achieve that object. This was in spite of the grotesque mismanagement, incompetence, atrocities and State-terror engaged in by the British government. American guilt is too simplistic as a motive; it’s always too reductive to try to narrow a complex set of circumstances down to a single factor.
April 16th, 2019
Of course, many English people deny (or are unforgivably ignorant of) all of the grotesque mismanagement, incompetence, atrocities and State-terror they engaged in within Ireland. Not to mention all of the other countries and regions which they invaded, enslaved and committed genocide in. From The Guardian: “The British have invaded 90% of the world’s countries.”
“Obviously all countries do terrible things but other countries don’t pretend they never happened” - about this, I have grave doubts.
It’s a crime in Turkey to even speak about their genocide of over 1.5 million Christian Armenians. The Islamic world has, from its inception, engaged in slavery. This is not even an issue. The Austrians have never had to confront their bloody role during the Second World War. In Japan, children are not taught about the horrifying atrocities carried out against the Chinese, Koreans and many others. Discussion about it is unwelcome and regarded as “shameful.” The British operated concentration/death camps before and after the Nazis (South Africa and Kenya, respectively). The fascists are experiencing a resurgence within Germany (and throughout Europe). Europe has a history of eugenics which has never been addressed. Communist slave states murdered well in excess of 100 million people.
The list could go on and on. So, why just America? It’s a profoundly valid question.
This “uncomfortable” stuff always gets swept under the historical rug.
April 16th, 2019
“But there were Irish slaves!” is both factually untrue and a white supremacist talking point.
Selling yourself into a period of indentured servitude or being sentenced to the same is very different from chattel slavery as experienced by African slaves. If anyone is actually interested in the history, Irish historian Liam Hogan is a good place to start.
The Irish ’slaves’ were not slaves in the same sense as the African slaves. Those who were indentured had limited access to the legal system if they were being mistreated, they had a definite indenture period after which they were no longer servants, and any children they had were born free, just like any other white child.
African slaves, on the other hand, were slaves for life, any children they had were automatically slaves belonging to the parent’s owner. They were not considered to be people under the law (they were merely property) and the slave owner could dispose of his property as he saw fit. If he decided to torture or rape or kill a slave, there was no recourse to the courts.
As to the ‘profoundly valid’ questions, there are plenty of other nations guilty of monstrous crimes, and I am quite happy to read about them as well. In fact, the only time I don’t want to hear them brought up is in an effort to whitewash America’s crimes. It’s bad faith nonsense.
April 17th, 2019
The point is that the “whitewashing” and “bad faith nonsense” runs in the other direction. Most of the enormities I mentioned are hardly known about at all, outside of the historical milieu. Consequently, they are not part of the discourse. However, everyone concentrates disproportionately on American history, to the exclusion of all other, far greater crimes. Why do people want America to bear all the sins of the world? The entire distraction measure precludes the overdue and wholly justified criticism and evaluation of all other atrocities and barbarities. Useful eejits abound.
Unless you’re taking refuge in that crazy canard about FEMA Death Camps? When you make a sincere study of history, politics and philosophy, all of the simple-minded ideological scales will fall from your eyes. You will find that ideology is worse than useless as an interpretive device. It’s profoundly liberating to drop all of that futile, extraneous baggage. Bad historians reveal their political bias also in what they strategically omit from their work. Be especially on guard for that. Blatantly ideological historiography is not worth a bucket of spit.
Regarding your other errors: if you attempted to escape your period of indentured servitude, you would be hunted down and punished under the law. This rendered your status that of an unfree, effectively enslaved person. You were not merely a disgruntled employee, for instance. In many cases, Irish men, women and children were abducted, by force, coercion or deception, and sold for profit by traders - manifestly without their consent, and without their agreeing to the terms or length of servitude. And the conditions of their transport were absolutely inhuman. When we’re dealing with instances of such degradation and barbarity, the designations and nomenclature become purely issues of improvident semantics.
This is a very significant issue involving Irish and English history, which actually contained within its 800 year span, events which were far more evil, brutal and savage than slavery/indentured servitude. By a considerable margin. But these serious issues should not be deployed in your “white supremacy” or utilised as weapons in any convoluted “race” politics.
Read the relevant comments above for further corrections. Human beings of all ethnicities and colours have been victims of this disgusting practice throughout human history - and remain so to this day. Do not make the fatuous error of automatically linking skin colour to slavery; because slave traders certainly don’t have any colour bar - it would be an unnecessary obstacle to increased profits. People from all backgrounds are victims of modern trafficking and sex slavery. These facts may not suit certain people or ideologies, but that does not subvert their validity or veracity. As a historical note: be aware also of serfdom, and the widespread custom of restricting (tying or binding) unfree persons to work the land for their “masters,” for the duration of their lives.
April 17th, 2019
I hope you get regular naps, because all of this moving the goalposts and attempted derailing must be exhausting…
April 17th, 2019
I’m not sure if Roberto Sirvent and Danny Haiphong are Anarchists, utopian Marxists, or non-interventionist Libertarians. The problem here is not whether or not America has ever done anything wrong. Again, it is the obvious contradictions, out-right naivety, and blatant half truths that prove inflammatory.
They sympathize with an American athlete who has been enriched by American free-market capitalism, while he embraces the Marxism of Cuba and Venezuela. Do I mean to imply that the American flag is more sacred and innocent than the freedom and liberty it represents, and that America has never done anything wrong? Of course not! It does, however imply that before we flock to support those who disrespect what the flag symbolizes, we need to consider the irrationality and contradictions that fuel such an attitude, and that with all the bad things that America has done, it also represents an awful lot of good, including the freedom to disagree with government policies.
The summary goes on to ask: “Are wars fought to spread freedom and democracy?” Notice, it does not ask, “Were ALL wars fought to spread freedom and democracy?” The authors are making sweeping generalizations and assuming to know all of the factors and motivations behind every engagement, and that NONE of them are altruistic in nature. The fact that they would make such a pronouncement on the heels of mentioning a black man whose freedom was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of men, is beyond the pale. Then to suggest it is fake news is worse than an insult. It is about as disrespectful as a person can get!
I’ve already mentioned the absurdity of Hitler only being interested in getting Germany’s land back. The main factor of Germany losing the war was because their military was stretched out too thin across the world, and they were unable to keep up on all of the battle fronts. Why would the military aggressive Nazis design nuclear weapons, if not to use it to defeat her enemies? Japan and Germany were allies. Japan was already in process of subjugating other nations, prior to attacking America, which was immediately followed by Germany’s declaration of war on America. This is not fake news, and I would also say that whatever their political philosophies may be, the authors are certainly a naive lot.
I noticed that you skipped over a few of my ‘profoundly valid’ questions, eh, notmebug191? Again, who do you think sold Africans to the traders? Why did the traders stop shipping slaves? What was it that caused America’s conscience to become so deeply bothered by slavery, that they were willing to pay for their freedom with their own blood?
April 17th, 2019
notmebug - You’ll have to forgive all of my unforgivable misdirections, distractions & divagations. Oh, wait - that was you (and the “authors”), “notme.”
Please don’t imagine that I’m singling you out for much-deserved criticism, I instead reserve justified ire for some historians and academics, who know better, but nonetheless choose to promote worthless ideology, which has nothing whatsoever to do with proper historiography.
Historical and political ignorance is rife. People seem to only know what’s happening within their own narrow sphere. And sometimes damn all about that too. But then they divert themselves with their cherished racisms and prejudices.
Now for my nap…
April 19th, 2019
Notmebug- that’s some god tier eloquence right there. Your grace and skill at debating the nuances of slavery was astounding.
First time getting your preconceived notions critiqued, I presume?
April 20th, 2019
from an audio book site to a political forum…but in the end a simple ‘thank you for the upload’ was all that was needed. (and wanted) give it a rest all of you self important wind bags, good god you’re tedious. Oh, and thanks for the upload. Cheers!
April 21st, 2019
Max! An epiphany! It certainly didn’t occur to me that an upload concerning history and politics (albeit, with a weak grasp of these domains) would attract comments referencing history and politics. Would that we had thy Olympian sagacity…
April 30th, 2019
Wow, suggesting that America is not a Force for Good really struck a chord.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
May 7th, 2019
I think that the lady just requires some balance, that’s all. She also thinks that ideology is poisonous and anti-thought. However, I don’t want to put too many words in her mouth.
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